THE SYNCREATE PODCAST: EMPOWERING CREATIVITY
HOSTED BY MELINDA ROTHOUSE, PHD
WELCOME TO SYNCREATE, WHERE WE EXPLORE THE INTERSECTIONS BETWEEN CREATIVITY,
PSYCHOLOGY,AND SPIRITUALITY. OUR GOAL IS TO DEMYSTIFY THE CREATIVE PROCESS,
AND EXPAND THE BOUNDARIES OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE CREATIVE.
SUBSCRIBE / FOLLOW US ON SPOTIFY, APPLE PODCASTS, YOUTUBE
OR WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS
HOSTED BY MELINDA ROTHOUSE, PHD
WELCOME TO SYNCREATE, WHERE WE EXPLORE THE INTERSECTIONS BETWEEN CREATIVITY,
PSYCHOLOGY,AND SPIRITUALITY. OUR GOAL IS TO DEMYSTIFY THE CREATIVE PROCESS,
AND EXPAND THE BOUNDARIES OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE CREATIVE.
SUBSCRIBE / FOLLOW US ON SPOTIFY, APPLE PODCASTS, YOUTUBE
OR WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS
EPISODE 13: CREATIVITY AS A FOUNDATION OF RESILIENCE WITH Cyrus Gray III
LISTEN TO THE AUDIO EPISODE HERE:
WATCH THE FULL VIDEO VERSION HERE:
This episode, featuring Cyrus Gray III, demonstrates how creativity can support resilience, even under extremely difficult circumstances. In Episode 11, I talked with Dylan Hayre about the creativity in his criminal justice reform work. In this episode, we hear about the criminal justice system from the perspective of someone who found himself behind bars for nearly five years, four of those awaiting trial for murder, all the while maintaining his innocence. This episode is very personal to me, as you’ll hear. I served as a juror on Cyrus’ trial, which gave me a troubling window into the criminal justice system in Texas. It ended in a mistrial after the jury could not come to a decision. His case has now been dismissed.
Our conversation today focuses on Cyrus’ story and his efforts to navigate the criminal justice system, advocate for himself and others, and ultimately win his release. He also embraced the power of community to advocate for others experiencing lengthy pre-trial detention and to foster positive changes to the system. I see this as a fundamentally creative act. Cyrus’ story embodies what we at Syncreate believe about creativity, from expanding the boundaries of what it means to be creative, to exploding the myth of the solo artist, to harnessing the power of community and interconnection to foster change and innovation.
Our Creativity Pro Tip for this episode takes inspiration from Cyrus’ efforts to speak up and speak out against injustice. Individually and collectively, we all have the power to advocate for ourselves and what we believe is right to make a positive difference in the world, even when we may doubt ourselves or our potential impact. As I’ve personally learned and witnessed, each of us can and do make a difference. So how can you use your creativity to speak up about what you believe in, despite the fears you may feel, that brings out the best of your voice and expression?
Credits: The Syncreate podcast is created and hosted by Melinda Rothouse, and produced by Christian Haigis with assistance from Michael Osborne in Austin, Texas. Creative development and video production by Shuja Uddin and Devon Foster at Tishna Films. Artwork by Dreux Carpenter.
If you enjoy this episode, you might also like our conversations in Episode 5: Creative Global Citizenship with Screenwriter and Filmmaker Shuja Uddin, Episode 11: Leadership, Values, and Criminal Justice Reform with Attorney Dylan Hayre, and Episode 12: Creativity, Inclusivity and Community Theater with Sharanya Rao.
Our conversation today focuses on Cyrus’ story and his efforts to navigate the criminal justice system, advocate for himself and others, and ultimately win his release. He also embraced the power of community to advocate for others experiencing lengthy pre-trial detention and to foster positive changes to the system. I see this as a fundamentally creative act. Cyrus’ story embodies what we at Syncreate believe about creativity, from expanding the boundaries of what it means to be creative, to exploding the myth of the solo artist, to harnessing the power of community and interconnection to foster change and innovation.
Our Creativity Pro Tip for this episode takes inspiration from Cyrus’ efforts to speak up and speak out against injustice. Individually and collectively, we all have the power to advocate for ourselves and what we believe is right to make a positive difference in the world, even when we may doubt ourselves or our potential impact. As I’ve personally learned and witnessed, each of us can and do make a difference. So how can you use your creativity to speak up about what you believe in, despite the fears you may feel, that brings out the best of your voice and expression?
Credits: The Syncreate podcast is created and hosted by Melinda Rothouse, and produced by Christian Haigis with assistance from Michael Osborne in Austin, Texas. Creative development and video production by Shuja Uddin and Devon Foster at Tishna Films. Artwork by Dreux Carpenter.
If you enjoy this episode, you might also like our conversations in Episode 5: Creative Global Citizenship with Screenwriter and Filmmaker Shuja Uddin, Episode 11: Leadership, Values, and Criminal Justice Reform with Attorney Dylan Hayre, and Episode 12: Creativity, Inclusivity and Community Theater with Sharanya Rao.
EPISODE VIDEO CLIP
EPISODE-SPECIFIC HYPERLINKS
Article: “Pre-Trial Injustice” by Cyrus Gray with Matthew Clair
Article: “Criminal Injustice: A View from the Juror’s Box” by Melinda Rothouse
Book: Privilege and Punishment: How Race and Class Matter in Criminal Court by Matthew Clair
Article: “Five Years, and Counting, Without Trial” by Brittany Kelley
Article: “Hays County Sets Trial Date for Man Stuck in Jail for Five Years” by Brant Bingamon
Free Devonte Amerson Linktree with Additional Links & Information
Mano Amiga - Criminal Justice Reform Organization in San Marcos, Texas
Mano Amiga-Sponsored Act Blue Campaign: Fund DJ’s Legal Defense
Article: “Criminal Injustice: A View from the Juror’s Box” by Melinda Rothouse
Book: Privilege and Punishment: How Race and Class Matter in Criminal Court by Matthew Clair
Article: “Five Years, and Counting, Without Trial” by Brittany Kelley
Article: “Hays County Sets Trial Date for Man Stuck in Jail for Five Years” by Brant Bingamon
Free Devonte Amerson Linktree with Additional Links & Information
Mano Amiga - Criminal Justice Reform Organization in San Marcos, Texas
Mano Amiga-Sponsored Act Blue Campaign: Fund DJ’s Legal Defense
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Melinda: Welcome to Syncreate, where we explore the intersections between creativity, psychology, and spirituality. Our goal is to demystify the creative process and expand the boundaries of what it means to be creative. I'm Melinda Rothouse, and I help individuals and organizations bring their creative dreams and visions to life.
Okay, folks, this episode is a little different than anything we've done before on the show. It's deeply personal to me, as you're about to learn, an instance of fates colliding. It's a story of creativity as a foundation of resilience under nearly unimaginable circumstances, at least for many of us.
In episode 11, I talked with Dylan Hayre about the creativity in his criminal justice reform work. In this episode, we'll be hearing about the criminal justice system from the perspective of someone who found himself behind bars for nearly five years, four of those awaiting trial for murder, all the while maintaining his innocence.
My guest today is Cyrus Gray III. I met Cyrus in the summer of 2022 when I was called for jury duty on a capital murder case in Hays County, Texas, outside of Austin. Cyrus was the defendant in that case, and I was selected as a juror. Over the course of two and a half weeks. I witnessed how the state of Texas unleashed its full arsenal of tactics to try to convince the jury that Cyrus should spend the rest of his life in prison with not a single shred of tangible evidence against him, nothing actually tying him to the crime or the scene of the crime.
No fingerprints, no DNA, no weapon, no eyewitnesses. I observed how the criminal justice system is completely stacked against people like Cyrus. After three and a half days of deliberations, the jury was deadlocked, many, like me, believing the state had not even come close to proving Cyrus’ guilt, and his case ended in a mistrial.
After what I experienced in that trial, for my part, I could not remain silent. I published an article in the Texas Observer titled “Criminal Injustice: A View from the Juror's Box.” After the mistrial, Cyrus was eventually released on bond, and now his case has been dismissed. Our conversation today focuses on Cyrus's story and his efforts to navigate the criminal justice system, advocate for himself and others, and ultimately, win his release. I see this as a fundamentally creative act.
Cyrus's story embodies what we at Syncreate believe about creativity, from expanding the boundaries of what it means to be creative, to exploding the myth of the solo artist, to harnessing the power of community and interconnection to foster change and innovation. Here is Cyrus’ story. We recorded this conversation at Mystic Oaks, my creative studio in the Texas Hill Country.
We have had quite a journey together.
Cyrus: Yes, yes we have. Thanks for having me.
Melinda: Absolutely. So I want to share just a little bit about your background. So you and your family came to the U.S. from Liberia.
Cyrus: Yes.
Melinda: When you were a kid, and you first went to Chicago. Yeah? And then grew up in Houston and you were a student at Texas State University.
Cyrus: Yes, I was.
Melinda: Yeah, and involved with music, doing some music.
Cyrus: Yeah. Managed some artists, yeah.
Melinda: So, when this story kind of begins, you were working as a physical therapy tech in Houston. So last summer in late June, our paths intersected, or you could even say our fates collided, one day in a courtroom in San Marcos, Texas. So what do you remember about that day and how we came to know each other?
Cyrus: That was a scary day.
Melinda: Yeah.
Cyrus: Every day in the courtroom was a pretty scary day during that time and when I noticed you in the jury selection during trial, I leaned over to my co-counsel and I was like, “Hey, this lady is looking at me crazy.” Yeah, you know, when some people are focused and paying attention to concentrating, their focus face is kind of like…so in my mind this whole time. I'm looking at all of these people in the jury, and I'm like, “Dang, who thinks I'm guilty?” And then I look at you and I'm like, “Dang, she thinks I'm guilty.” But I'm glad to know that I was very wrong about that.
Melinda: Yeah, so to give a little background on that, so I was called for jury duty, and I showed up with, you know, several hundred other people that day, 99% of whom were white. And I'm sitting there in the jury selection and I'm looking up there at you with a team of lawyers and I'm just assuming you're part of the legal team. I didn't even realize you were the defendant until much later in the day. You know, you just had this real presence and demeanor. You were talking to the attorneys, taking notes. So, tell us a little bit more about how you came to be there that day.
Cyrus: So, in 2018, I, well, me and my close friend, were both arrested and accused of the capital murder of a Texas State student named Justin Gage. Justin Gage was murdered in a robbery in 2015. Devonte and I were suspected of this incident, and we weren't arrested until nearly three years later. We were never called for questioning, we were never asked to come in, nobody ever came with a search warrant or a subpoena for our cell phones to see if there was anything there.
They just showed up in our lives one day, picked us up from Houston, like, really like a kidnapping, and brought us to San Marcos and we sat in Hays County Jail for years and years and years. I was in jail for over four years before I finally had a trial. And this whole time, before I had a trial, I had no bond.
So, once I finally did have a trial, that's where we ended up meeting during the trial process. And then afterwards you were so concerned about how everything went, you wrote an article that really like made a huge difference in how my bond hearing turned out too, and you even showed up to support at the hearing and everything.
Melinda: So my perspective on that, you know, I show up at the courthouse that day just thinking, you know, jury duty, you know I'll probably be out of here by noon and go get some lunch. And then all of a sudden, it's a murder trial and as the day goes on it becomes more and more clear that I'm likely to be called as a juror. And I'm thinking to myself, you know, I've got concerns, let's say, about the criminal justice system in Texas to begin with. But I'm thinking to myself, well, if I do get called, maybe at least I can help ensure there is a fair trial, right? I'll be as objective as I can. I'll hear the evidence presented. And we'll see what happens.
Well, what happened over those two and a half weeks is that I saw absolutely zero evidence that you had anything to do with this crime. You know, and I'm sitting there in the courtroom, I'm looking out at your family gathered around, Justin's family gathered around. I'm seeing how many lives have been torn apart by this situation, by the grinding wheels of the system, how your friends and associates were treated, you know, harassed, intimidated, coerced into giving false testimony. And yeah, it really, really concerned me deeply. And at the end of the day, the jurors couldn't come to any agreement and your case ended in a mistrial.
Cyrus: Right.
Melinda: Yeah, so as you mentioned, I was really inspired to write an article and kind of, I felt like it just gave me a window into the way the system actually works, right? And I felt I couldn't stay silent, you know?
So you also, during those four years that you were sitting in jail awaiting detention, nevermind the right to a speedy trial, right? You made efforts to reach out to a lot of different people throughout the criminal justice reform system. You connected with a Stanford professor who you ended up writing an article with about your pre-trial detention. Tell us a little bit more about that.
Cyrus: Right. So I connected with a professor, Matthew Clair, of Stanford. And the way I connected with Matthew Clair, so in jail, there's not much there to do. So certain things that when it comes on TV, it's mandatory. We're watching it. Sports and TMZ were two of those things.
So, I actually happened to see Matthew Clair on TMZ talking about this book. he wrote is called Privilege and Punishment. And this book was pretty much just like about the criminal justice system and what he witnessed during his research. And how certain people were treated versus others, how court-appointeds handled their clients versus paid attorneys, and things like that.
So I'm hearing them talk about this book and I'm like, man, that sounds exactly like what I'm going through. So I called home and had a friend look up his name and his address and stuff. And I wrote him a letter, just explaining a little bit about my situation, who I am, and asking if he could send me a copy of his book. Around this time, it was COVID, so everything was shut down. So it took about like a year for him to actually get my letter and see my letter.
Melinda: You're kidding.
Cyrus: And when he got my letter, yeah, he responded. He responded right away, and we connected like that. And we corresponded a few times through mail. He told me about the opportunity to write for Inquest, it's a Harvard forum, just about my situation and the jail conditions and what it's like to really be in that situation and what I think could be done different to kind of fix the problems within the system. So, that's how we connected there. And he's been helping me however he can through the process ever since then.
Melinda: Yeah. So, what really strikes me so much about your story, so many people I think, you know, number one, unfortunately, it's not a unique story, right? There are so many people right now, even in the San Marcos, Hays County Jail, awaiting trial. Some of them up to seven years, right? And your efforts to kind of bring this out into the light, what you experienced, what other people experienced. And from what I understand, you also, number one, you learned how to advocate for yourself. You basically had to educate yourself in the whole legal system.
Cyrus: Yeah. Wasn't easy.
Melinda: Yeah. Like you were writing your own motions. And writing your own briefs. You had court-appointed attorneys who weren't necessarily invested in your case. So you had to do a lot of work to learn about the system and how to, you know, advocate for yourself and others.
Cyrus: Yeah, very true. My first court-appointed attorney, the first thing he said when he finally met me was, “Wow, you really went for the big one, didn't you?” And I'm like, alright, that's the introduction? Like, this guy definitely believes I'm guilty. You know, he came to see me like three times, five to ten minutes max, and he would try to convince me to take a 40-year prison sentence and when I would tell him, “Hey man, I didn't do nothing. I'm not gonna just throw my life away, you know?”
He goes, “Oh, you know, I gotta go, I gotta go pick up my wife or I gotta go pick up my daughter from school.” One time, he was like, “How old are you?” At this time, I'm still 23 years old. I'm 29 now. I just turned 29 a few days ago.
Melinda: Happy Birthday.
Cyrus: Thank you. So he’s like, “How old are you? You're like, you're 23, right? You're still young. If you take this 45, you'll do like 20 years. You'll get out around my age. Look at me, I'm still out here partying. I'm still out here sleeping with girls. You'll have a lot of life left to live.”
And the thing with that, that makes it even worse, I'm not a citizen. So you're trying to convince me to take a conviction on a crime that I didn't commit. You're not even educating me on what could happen if I get a conviction, meaning that I'm not a citizen. Right. You're not considering any of those things at all. Right. You're just trying to get me out of the way because you believe that I'm guilty.
Melinda: Right. And speaking of which, you know, when your family came here from Liberia, you came as asylees, right? So just, you know, seeking a better life in a country where you ended up in this mess.
Cyrus: Yeah.
Melinda: Yeah. So you had a bond hearing; they finally set up bond for you after the the mistrial.
Cyrus: Right. Right.
Melinda: And tell us a little bit more about what happened then.
Cyrus: So a few months after the mistrial, I finally had a bond hearing. It took a lot of efforts from myself, from you, from my family, and from Mano Amiga, the activist group in San Marcos. Like, really doing a lot of research, putting a little, a bond packet together for me. And pretty much handing it over to my attorney at the time. It’s like, I’m doing all the work for him, like, here: just use this. And the day that I had my bond hearing, he still tried to convince my family that it wasn't a good idea to have that hearing that day.
He tried to tell them, you know, I don't know if the judge is going to agree with this. Maybe we should push it back for like January. At this time, it's November. I'd already been in jail for four years and eight months. I had already had a trial. Everybody has seen at the trial what this case looks like. Bunch of people are here to support me at this hearing. You're here. A professor at Stanford went out of his way to write a letter for this hearing. A former prosecutor went out of her way to be here to let the judge know that, hey, let him out. He can come stay with me if you don't want him to go back to Houston. You know this and you're trying to convince all these people that maybe this is not a good idea. You know?
And my mom tells him like, Hey, we're already here. Why don't we just like, try it and let the judge decide. Let's see what the judge says. Yeah. And he tells her, well, you're not my client. So I'm going to go talk to Cyrus and see what he thinks about it. Because he was hoping that I would just be like, yeah, you know what? Maybe we should push it back. So he comes down to the holding tank to talk to me.
He's like, yeah, you know, “Melinda's here. I got the letter from the professor. Your parents are here. Grandma's here. Shannon's here.” All these things, right? Like, “I don't think it's a good idea. I think maybe we should wait.” And I was like, “Everybody is here. Like, what would you, what are we waiting for? We're already here. What would be the point to wait? Like what could go wrong at this point?” You know? So like the fact that I even have to convince you to have this hearing and you've been dealing with this case for years, you know how ridiculous this is. There were just so many instances where that attorney showed me that he was not zealously representing me at all.
Melinda: Yeah.
Cyrus: As a matter of fact, like months, a month before my case was actually dismissed, the prosecutor offered Devonte 15 years. I find out from Devonte's mother. So I called, “Hey man, what's going on? I thought you said they were gonna dismiss the case and all that. The DA just offered Devonte 15 years to testify against me in trial.”
He loses it. He's upset. He feels betrayed, because up to this point, he believed that they were friends.
Melinda: Mm hmm.
Cyrus: So he calls me four times that day, the most he's ever called me. Because he's mad, and in his rage, he begins to tell on himself, he's like, “No, that's slimy. That's messed up because I've been stalling for them and I've been doing this for them and I've been doing that.”
And I tell him, I'm like, “You just called me four times. Like this is the most you've ever called me, ever. And each one of these calls you admitted to me that you have not been working in my best interest. How do you think that makes me feel?” You know, he had nothing to say. These are the type of attorneys that people are left to deal with, you know, if you don't have the funds to afford your own, like, you have these people that their whole job is to convince you to take a prison sentence.
Melinda: Right.
Cyrus: Conviction rates are high because people plea out because people are threatened and frightened to take a plea deal.
Melinda: Right. And they feel defeated by the system, and like they have no other option.
Cyrus: Right. Right. Mm-hmm.
Melinda: I mean, and a couple things that really strike me about all this is like this incredible outpouring of support you had from the whole community, right? Not only your family, but Mano Amiga, the advocacy group in San Marcus that you've also been doing work with since you got out. And Shannon, the former prosecutor, who welcomed you into her home and has really advocated on your behalf. You know, so many people who believed in you.
And also, how much you believed in yourself, you know, that you really stood up to a system that can feel so insurmountable, right? And so, and then this also brings up the issue of court-appointed attorneys, right? Because you also spoke up in favor of Hays County instituting a public defender's office.
Cyrus: Right.
Melinda: Which they didn't have.
Cyrus: Right.
Melinda: Until just recently. Right? And, and tell us a little bit about your understanding of court-appointed attorneys versus public defenders.
Cyrus: Well, first of all, less than 40 counties in the state of Texas have a public defender's office, and that's terrible.
Melinda: Yeah.
Cyrus: And the big difference between a court-appointed and a public defender is a public defender, they have their own resources, they have their own office, they have their own things they need to work a case. They're not reliant on the state to do the job. Court-appointeds are reliant on the state, on the judge, and on this prosecutor to be in their good favor for them to keep getting cases.
Melinda: Yeah.
Cyrus: And the faster you resolve the case, the more you get paid. You don't get paid big money for taking a court-appointed case to trial. You get paid a lot more if you can convince this person to take a prison sentence. You know, whereas a public defender is actually trying to represent you and zealously defend you because they, they're not reliant on the state for, to make a living, you know?
Melinda: Yeah. Exactly. And it just illustrates to me how anybody who comes into contact with the criminal justice system, you know, whether rightly or wrongly, you know, the deck is stacked.
Cyrus: Yeah, definitely.
Melinda: Yeah. So, your case has now been dismissed.
Cyrus: Yes, it has.
Melinda: Congratulations.
Cyrus: Thank you.
Melinda: Yeah, but your co-defendant, Devonte Amerson, who's also a childhood friend of yours, is still in jail. So tell us what's happening there.
Cyrus: So Devonte is still currently being detained pre-trial. He's been set for trial. Um, in June of…this past June, my lawyer, he called me and he's like, “Hey, I'm done. I quit.” This was like a few days before I was set for a second trial date. So, I'm like, “Alright, cool, whatever.” So the day right before my court date, I write a letter to the judge and I write a motion to the judge asking the judge to dismiss my case with prejudice due to my speedy trial rights being violated.
Right. I go to court, I gave the judge the letter, and I gave the judge the motion. And he read over everything and he was like, “You know what? He's right, like, everything he's saying in this is right, and the way that he presented it is right.” He made them file the motion and everything right then and there, because the clerk wasn't trying to file it and he was like, “No, you need to file this before he leaves. And you need to set a hearing for this motion before he leaves.” And then he told the prosecutor, “You have this amount of days to make a decision.” So, after that, based off of how the hearing went, everybody came to the understanding that this judge is probably going to grant this motion.
And had the motion been granted, it would have been the same as me going to trial and being found not guilty. So, he sets the hearing, and this new attorney, Ricky T, I call him Ricky T. New attorney Ricky T in town. He offers to help me to argue my motion. Yeah, so we spent a few days having meetings with him, amending it, like putting legal terms in it. You know, there's certain words you have to use in the courtroom that hit harder.
So he helped to re-amend it that way so it's better and we re-filed the amended motion. Once the prosecutor had seen the amended motion, he waited until my judge was not at the courthouse, and he went to Austin and got a judge, not even a sitting judge at the time, who just happens to be a friend of his, to come down here and sign off on his dismissal, before I could have my hearing.
Melinda: So he basically pre-empted you.
Cyrus: Yeah.
Melinda: You filed this motion to be heard in court and they did dismiss your case, but they sort of pre-empted you having your day in court.
Cyrus: Yeah, pretty much. Because this case, a capital murder charge, has no statute of limitation. So the way that the prosecutor dismissed it, it's just a means for him to buy time to continue to try to prosecute Devonte and myself without, like behind closed doors pretty much.
Melinda: Yeah.
Cyrus: Immediately after the prosecutor filed to dismiss my case and put out this great newsletter: “The Case Against Cyrus Gray has Been Dismissed.” They went right back to Devonte and begged Devonte to tell them any amount of years he's willing to take to testify against me in trial.
Melinda: Wow.
Cyrus: Immediately after dismissing my case.
Melinda: But he didn't do it. He wouldn't do it.
Cyrus: He didn't do it. He refused again. So they took him to court and they told the judge, yeah, we're ready to take him to trial.
Melinda: So he's been in jail now for how long?
Cyrus: Over five years. Devonte's been in jail now for five years, and seven months now.
Melinda: Wow, yeah. So, your case has been dismissed. You're out, you've been out there in the community. You've been working with Mano Amiga, trying to raise awareness about these pre-trial conditions, about the system, and about Devonte. So, how can people get involved if they want to learn more about this?
Cyrus: If you want to learn more about Devonte’s situation and everything that's going on, I have a Linktree that's set up with a few articles specifically about Devonte and myself. And it has a link to a donation fund for Devonte's legal fees. As well as links to a few zines that I've written since I've been out.
Melinda: Great. Yeah, and there has been a good amount of press coverage of your case.
Cyrus: Yes, that's true.
Melinda: So we'll share all those links. Absolutely. When we release the episode. So, I kind of want to, you know, end with what's next for you? What are your plans?
Cyrus: Now that my case is resolved and I can get my immigration situation and all that taken care of, I plan on getting back into school and going to law school.
Melinda: Awesome.
Cyrus: In the meantime, while I'm going through the school process, I'm gonna try to reestablish some old business ideas and plans that I had and worked on while I was incarcerated. And also while I was incarcerated, I wrote three movies and…
Melinda: You did?
Cyrus: Yeah, and I created a whole cartoon and wrote three seasons and drew like a hundred characters. So I'm going to try to pitch those things and try to see if I can make a little profit off of those two.
Melinda: Awesome. And you know, it seems to me everything that you've learned about the system, everything you've experienced firsthand, is going to make you an incredibly powerful advocate for criminal justice reform. You're already doing it, and I'm really excited to see where you go with all this, you know, on the legal side and the creative side.
Cyrus: Yeah.
Melinda: Yeah. I know it's not easy But I so appreciate your being here today and being willing to share your story and your experience. And, you know, it really just hits home to me kind of like Margaret Mead said, what a concerned group of citizens can do to change the world. And I think that everything that you're doing will have impact, for so many other people who may not have the wherewithal, or the learning, or the understanding to advocate for themselves in the way that you have. So, I really commend you.
Cyrus: Thank you. Yeah.
Melinda: Thanks for being here.
Cyrus: Yeah, glad to be here.
Melinda: To me, Cyrus’ story demonstrates the power of creativity as a foundation of resilience, even when the deck is overwhelmingly stacked against you. Cyrus not only educated himself in the legal system, he learned to advocate for himself while in jail. He brought public attention to his situation. He also embraced the power of community to advocate for others and foster positive changes to the system. He's even addressed the Texas Legislature regarding his own experience and the problems with the criminal justice system, an incredibly brave act given what he's been through.
Our creativity Pro Tip for today takes inspiration from Cyrus's efforts to speak up and speak out against injustice. Individually and collectively, we all have the power to advocate for ourselves and what we believe is right, to make a positive difference in the world, even when we may doubt ourselves or our potential impact.
When I spoke publicly after Cyrus's trial, about my experience as a juror and about my article in the Texas Observer, people came up to me afterwards warning me about my personal safety in the face of speaking out. There's a lot of fear in the world. And a lot of complex problems to address. But as I've personally learned and witnessed, each of us can and do make a difference. So how can you use your creativity to speak up about what you believe in, despite the fears you may feel, that brings out the best of your voice and expression?
Thanks again to Cyrus Gray for the conversation. We'll provide links in the show notes for more information about his story, press coverage of his case, and how you can get involved in his ongoing efforts to help his friend Devonte Amerson and others dealing with lengthy pre-trial detention and a system that's stacked against them.
At Syncreate, we're here to support your creative endeavors. If you have an idea and you're interested in our help, please reach out to us about one-on-one coaching, or join our Syncreate Six-Month Coaching Group starting in April of 2024. We'll be guiding you through our Syncreate process to help bring a creative project to life. You can learn more at syncreate.org.
This episode was produced by Christian Haigis with assistance by Mike Osborne. Follow Syncreate on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, and LinkedIn, where you can also find out more about all we do at Syncreate. Thanks for listening, and see you next time.
Okay, folks, this episode is a little different than anything we've done before on the show. It's deeply personal to me, as you're about to learn, an instance of fates colliding. It's a story of creativity as a foundation of resilience under nearly unimaginable circumstances, at least for many of us.
In episode 11, I talked with Dylan Hayre about the creativity in his criminal justice reform work. In this episode, we'll be hearing about the criminal justice system from the perspective of someone who found himself behind bars for nearly five years, four of those awaiting trial for murder, all the while maintaining his innocence.
My guest today is Cyrus Gray III. I met Cyrus in the summer of 2022 when I was called for jury duty on a capital murder case in Hays County, Texas, outside of Austin. Cyrus was the defendant in that case, and I was selected as a juror. Over the course of two and a half weeks. I witnessed how the state of Texas unleashed its full arsenal of tactics to try to convince the jury that Cyrus should spend the rest of his life in prison with not a single shred of tangible evidence against him, nothing actually tying him to the crime or the scene of the crime.
No fingerprints, no DNA, no weapon, no eyewitnesses. I observed how the criminal justice system is completely stacked against people like Cyrus. After three and a half days of deliberations, the jury was deadlocked, many, like me, believing the state had not even come close to proving Cyrus’ guilt, and his case ended in a mistrial.
After what I experienced in that trial, for my part, I could not remain silent. I published an article in the Texas Observer titled “Criminal Injustice: A View from the Juror's Box.” After the mistrial, Cyrus was eventually released on bond, and now his case has been dismissed. Our conversation today focuses on Cyrus's story and his efforts to navigate the criminal justice system, advocate for himself and others, and ultimately, win his release. I see this as a fundamentally creative act.
Cyrus's story embodies what we at Syncreate believe about creativity, from expanding the boundaries of what it means to be creative, to exploding the myth of the solo artist, to harnessing the power of community and interconnection to foster change and innovation. Here is Cyrus’ story. We recorded this conversation at Mystic Oaks, my creative studio in the Texas Hill Country.
We have had quite a journey together.
Cyrus: Yes, yes we have. Thanks for having me.
Melinda: Absolutely. So I want to share just a little bit about your background. So you and your family came to the U.S. from Liberia.
Cyrus: Yes.
Melinda: When you were a kid, and you first went to Chicago. Yeah? And then grew up in Houston and you were a student at Texas State University.
Cyrus: Yes, I was.
Melinda: Yeah, and involved with music, doing some music.
Cyrus: Yeah. Managed some artists, yeah.
Melinda: So, when this story kind of begins, you were working as a physical therapy tech in Houston. So last summer in late June, our paths intersected, or you could even say our fates collided, one day in a courtroom in San Marcos, Texas. So what do you remember about that day and how we came to know each other?
Cyrus: That was a scary day.
Melinda: Yeah.
Cyrus: Every day in the courtroom was a pretty scary day during that time and when I noticed you in the jury selection during trial, I leaned over to my co-counsel and I was like, “Hey, this lady is looking at me crazy.” Yeah, you know, when some people are focused and paying attention to concentrating, their focus face is kind of like…so in my mind this whole time. I'm looking at all of these people in the jury, and I'm like, “Dang, who thinks I'm guilty?” And then I look at you and I'm like, “Dang, she thinks I'm guilty.” But I'm glad to know that I was very wrong about that.
Melinda: Yeah, so to give a little background on that, so I was called for jury duty, and I showed up with, you know, several hundred other people that day, 99% of whom were white. And I'm sitting there in the jury selection and I'm looking up there at you with a team of lawyers and I'm just assuming you're part of the legal team. I didn't even realize you were the defendant until much later in the day. You know, you just had this real presence and demeanor. You were talking to the attorneys, taking notes. So, tell us a little bit more about how you came to be there that day.
Cyrus: So, in 2018, I, well, me and my close friend, were both arrested and accused of the capital murder of a Texas State student named Justin Gage. Justin Gage was murdered in a robbery in 2015. Devonte and I were suspected of this incident, and we weren't arrested until nearly three years later. We were never called for questioning, we were never asked to come in, nobody ever came with a search warrant or a subpoena for our cell phones to see if there was anything there.
They just showed up in our lives one day, picked us up from Houston, like, really like a kidnapping, and brought us to San Marcos and we sat in Hays County Jail for years and years and years. I was in jail for over four years before I finally had a trial. And this whole time, before I had a trial, I had no bond.
So, once I finally did have a trial, that's where we ended up meeting during the trial process. And then afterwards you were so concerned about how everything went, you wrote an article that really like made a huge difference in how my bond hearing turned out too, and you even showed up to support at the hearing and everything.
Melinda: So my perspective on that, you know, I show up at the courthouse that day just thinking, you know, jury duty, you know I'll probably be out of here by noon and go get some lunch. And then all of a sudden, it's a murder trial and as the day goes on it becomes more and more clear that I'm likely to be called as a juror. And I'm thinking to myself, you know, I've got concerns, let's say, about the criminal justice system in Texas to begin with. But I'm thinking to myself, well, if I do get called, maybe at least I can help ensure there is a fair trial, right? I'll be as objective as I can. I'll hear the evidence presented. And we'll see what happens.
Well, what happened over those two and a half weeks is that I saw absolutely zero evidence that you had anything to do with this crime. You know, and I'm sitting there in the courtroom, I'm looking out at your family gathered around, Justin's family gathered around. I'm seeing how many lives have been torn apart by this situation, by the grinding wheels of the system, how your friends and associates were treated, you know, harassed, intimidated, coerced into giving false testimony. And yeah, it really, really concerned me deeply. And at the end of the day, the jurors couldn't come to any agreement and your case ended in a mistrial.
Cyrus: Right.
Melinda: Yeah, so as you mentioned, I was really inspired to write an article and kind of, I felt like it just gave me a window into the way the system actually works, right? And I felt I couldn't stay silent, you know?
So you also, during those four years that you were sitting in jail awaiting detention, nevermind the right to a speedy trial, right? You made efforts to reach out to a lot of different people throughout the criminal justice reform system. You connected with a Stanford professor who you ended up writing an article with about your pre-trial detention. Tell us a little bit more about that.
Cyrus: Right. So I connected with a professor, Matthew Clair, of Stanford. And the way I connected with Matthew Clair, so in jail, there's not much there to do. So certain things that when it comes on TV, it's mandatory. We're watching it. Sports and TMZ were two of those things.
So, I actually happened to see Matthew Clair on TMZ talking about this book. he wrote is called Privilege and Punishment. And this book was pretty much just like about the criminal justice system and what he witnessed during his research. And how certain people were treated versus others, how court-appointeds handled their clients versus paid attorneys, and things like that.
So I'm hearing them talk about this book and I'm like, man, that sounds exactly like what I'm going through. So I called home and had a friend look up his name and his address and stuff. And I wrote him a letter, just explaining a little bit about my situation, who I am, and asking if he could send me a copy of his book. Around this time, it was COVID, so everything was shut down. So it took about like a year for him to actually get my letter and see my letter.
Melinda: You're kidding.
Cyrus: And when he got my letter, yeah, he responded. He responded right away, and we connected like that. And we corresponded a few times through mail. He told me about the opportunity to write for Inquest, it's a Harvard forum, just about my situation and the jail conditions and what it's like to really be in that situation and what I think could be done different to kind of fix the problems within the system. So, that's how we connected there. And he's been helping me however he can through the process ever since then.
Melinda: Yeah. So, what really strikes me so much about your story, so many people I think, you know, number one, unfortunately, it's not a unique story, right? There are so many people right now, even in the San Marcos, Hays County Jail, awaiting trial. Some of them up to seven years, right? And your efforts to kind of bring this out into the light, what you experienced, what other people experienced. And from what I understand, you also, number one, you learned how to advocate for yourself. You basically had to educate yourself in the whole legal system.
Cyrus: Yeah. Wasn't easy.
Melinda: Yeah. Like you were writing your own motions. And writing your own briefs. You had court-appointed attorneys who weren't necessarily invested in your case. So you had to do a lot of work to learn about the system and how to, you know, advocate for yourself and others.
Cyrus: Yeah, very true. My first court-appointed attorney, the first thing he said when he finally met me was, “Wow, you really went for the big one, didn't you?” And I'm like, alright, that's the introduction? Like, this guy definitely believes I'm guilty. You know, he came to see me like three times, five to ten minutes max, and he would try to convince me to take a 40-year prison sentence and when I would tell him, “Hey man, I didn't do nothing. I'm not gonna just throw my life away, you know?”
He goes, “Oh, you know, I gotta go, I gotta go pick up my wife or I gotta go pick up my daughter from school.” One time, he was like, “How old are you?” At this time, I'm still 23 years old. I'm 29 now. I just turned 29 a few days ago.
Melinda: Happy Birthday.
Cyrus: Thank you. So he’s like, “How old are you? You're like, you're 23, right? You're still young. If you take this 45, you'll do like 20 years. You'll get out around my age. Look at me, I'm still out here partying. I'm still out here sleeping with girls. You'll have a lot of life left to live.”
And the thing with that, that makes it even worse, I'm not a citizen. So you're trying to convince me to take a conviction on a crime that I didn't commit. You're not even educating me on what could happen if I get a conviction, meaning that I'm not a citizen. Right. You're not considering any of those things at all. Right. You're just trying to get me out of the way because you believe that I'm guilty.
Melinda: Right. And speaking of which, you know, when your family came here from Liberia, you came as asylees, right? So just, you know, seeking a better life in a country where you ended up in this mess.
Cyrus: Yeah.
Melinda: Yeah. So you had a bond hearing; they finally set up bond for you after the the mistrial.
Cyrus: Right. Right.
Melinda: And tell us a little bit more about what happened then.
Cyrus: So a few months after the mistrial, I finally had a bond hearing. It took a lot of efforts from myself, from you, from my family, and from Mano Amiga, the activist group in San Marcos. Like, really doing a lot of research, putting a little, a bond packet together for me. And pretty much handing it over to my attorney at the time. It’s like, I’m doing all the work for him, like, here: just use this. And the day that I had my bond hearing, he still tried to convince my family that it wasn't a good idea to have that hearing that day.
He tried to tell them, you know, I don't know if the judge is going to agree with this. Maybe we should push it back for like January. At this time, it's November. I'd already been in jail for four years and eight months. I had already had a trial. Everybody has seen at the trial what this case looks like. Bunch of people are here to support me at this hearing. You're here. A professor at Stanford went out of his way to write a letter for this hearing. A former prosecutor went out of her way to be here to let the judge know that, hey, let him out. He can come stay with me if you don't want him to go back to Houston. You know this and you're trying to convince all these people that maybe this is not a good idea. You know?
And my mom tells him like, Hey, we're already here. Why don't we just like, try it and let the judge decide. Let's see what the judge says. Yeah. And he tells her, well, you're not my client. So I'm going to go talk to Cyrus and see what he thinks about it. Because he was hoping that I would just be like, yeah, you know what? Maybe we should push it back. So he comes down to the holding tank to talk to me.
He's like, yeah, you know, “Melinda's here. I got the letter from the professor. Your parents are here. Grandma's here. Shannon's here.” All these things, right? Like, “I don't think it's a good idea. I think maybe we should wait.” And I was like, “Everybody is here. Like, what would you, what are we waiting for? We're already here. What would be the point to wait? Like what could go wrong at this point?” You know? So like the fact that I even have to convince you to have this hearing and you've been dealing with this case for years, you know how ridiculous this is. There were just so many instances where that attorney showed me that he was not zealously representing me at all.
Melinda: Yeah.
Cyrus: As a matter of fact, like months, a month before my case was actually dismissed, the prosecutor offered Devonte 15 years. I find out from Devonte's mother. So I called, “Hey man, what's going on? I thought you said they were gonna dismiss the case and all that. The DA just offered Devonte 15 years to testify against me in trial.”
He loses it. He's upset. He feels betrayed, because up to this point, he believed that they were friends.
Melinda: Mm hmm.
Cyrus: So he calls me four times that day, the most he's ever called me. Because he's mad, and in his rage, he begins to tell on himself, he's like, “No, that's slimy. That's messed up because I've been stalling for them and I've been doing this for them and I've been doing that.”
And I tell him, I'm like, “You just called me four times. Like this is the most you've ever called me, ever. And each one of these calls you admitted to me that you have not been working in my best interest. How do you think that makes me feel?” You know, he had nothing to say. These are the type of attorneys that people are left to deal with, you know, if you don't have the funds to afford your own, like, you have these people that their whole job is to convince you to take a prison sentence.
Melinda: Right.
Cyrus: Conviction rates are high because people plea out because people are threatened and frightened to take a plea deal.
Melinda: Right. And they feel defeated by the system, and like they have no other option.
Cyrus: Right. Right. Mm-hmm.
Melinda: I mean, and a couple things that really strike me about all this is like this incredible outpouring of support you had from the whole community, right? Not only your family, but Mano Amiga, the advocacy group in San Marcus that you've also been doing work with since you got out. And Shannon, the former prosecutor, who welcomed you into her home and has really advocated on your behalf. You know, so many people who believed in you.
And also, how much you believed in yourself, you know, that you really stood up to a system that can feel so insurmountable, right? And so, and then this also brings up the issue of court-appointed attorneys, right? Because you also spoke up in favor of Hays County instituting a public defender's office.
Cyrus: Right.
Melinda: Which they didn't have.
Cyrus: Right.
Melinda: Until just recently. Right? And, and tell us a little bit about your understanding of court-appointed attorneys versus public defenders.
Cyrus: Well, first of all, less than 40 counties in the state of Texas have a public defender's office, and that's terrible.
Melinda: Yeah.
Cyrus: And the big difference between a court-appointed and a public defender is a public defender, they have their own resources, they have their own office, they have their own things they need to work a case. They're not reliant on the state to do the job. Court-appointeds are reliant on the state, on the judge, and on this prosecutor to be in their good favor for them to keep getting cases.
Melinda: Yeah.
Cyrus: And the faster you resolve the case, the more you get paid. You don't get paid big money for taking a court-appointed case to trial. You get paid a lot more if you can convince this person to take a prison sentence. You know, whereas a public defender is actually trying to represent you and zealously defend you because they, they're not reliant on the state for, to make a living, you know?
Melinda: Yeah. Exactly. And it just illustrates to me how anybody who comes into contact with the criminal justice system, you know, whether rightly or wrongly, you know, the deck is stacked.
Cyrus: Yeah, definitely.
Melinda: Yeah. So, your case has now been dismissed.
Cyrus: Yes, it has.
Melinda: Congratulations.
Cyrus: Thank you.
Melinda: Yeah, but your co-defendant, Devonte Amerson, who's also a childhood friend of yours, is still in jail. So tell us what's happening there.
Cyrus: So Devonte is still currently being detained pre-trial. He's been set for trial. Um, in June of…this past June, my lawyer, he called me and he's like, “Hey, I'm done. I quit.” This was like a few days before I was set for a second trial date. So, I'm like, “Alright, cool, whatever.” So the day right before my court date, I write a letter to the judge and I write a motion to the judge asking the judge to dismiss my case with prejudice due to my speedy trial rights being violated.
Right. I go to court, I gave the judge the letter, and I gave the judge the motion. And he read over everything and he was like, “You know what? He's right, like, everything he's saying in this is right, and the way that he presented it is right.” He made them file the motion and everything right then and there, because the clerk wasn't trying to file it and he was like, “No, you need to file this before he leaves. And you need to set a hearing for this motion before he leaves.” And then he told the prosecutor, “You have this amount of days to make a decision.” So, after that, based off of how the hearing went, everybody came to the understanding that this judge is probably going to grant this motion.
And had the motion been granted, it would have been the same as me going to trial and being found not guilty. So, he sets the hearing, and this new attorney, Ricky T, I call him Ricky T. New attorney Ricky T in town. He offers to help me to argue my motion. Yeah, so we spent a few days having meetings with him, amending it, like putting legal terms in it. You know, there's certain words you have to use in the courtroom that hit harder.
So he helped to re-amend it that way so it's better and we re-filed the amended motion. Once the prosecutor had seen the amended motion, he waited until my judge was not at the courthouse, and he went to Austin and got a judge, not even a sitting judge at the time, who just happens to be a friend of his, to come down here and sign off on his dismissal, before I could have my hearing.
Melinda: So he basically pre-empted you.
Cyrus: Yeah.
Melinda: You filed this motion to be heard in court and they did dismiss your case, but they sort of pre-empted you having your day in court.
Cyrus: Yeah, pretty much. Because this case, a capital murder charge, has no statute of limitation. So the way that the prosecutor dismissed it, it's just a means for him to buy time to continue to try to prosecute Devonte and myself without, like behind closed doors pretty much.
Melinda: Yeah.
Cyrus: Immediately after the prosecutor filed to dismiss my case and put out this great newsletter: “The Case Against Cyrus Gray has Been Dismissed.” They went right back to Devonte and begged Devonte to tell them any amount of years he's willing to take to testify against me in trial.
Melinda: Wow.
Cyrus: Immediately after dismissing my case.
Melinda: But he didn't do it. He wouldn't do it.
Cyrus: He didn't do it. He refused again. So they took him to court and they told the judge, yeah, we're ready to take him to trial.
Melinda: So he's been in jail now for how long?
Cyrus: Over five years. Devonte's been in jail now for five years, and seven months now.
Melinda: Wow, yeah. So, your case has been dismissed. You're out, you've been out there in the community. You've been working with Mano Amiga, trying to raise awareness about these pre-trial conditions, about the system, and about Devonte. So, how can people get involved if they want to learn more about this?
Cyrus: If you want to learn more about Devonte’s situation and everything that's going on, I have a Linktree that's set up with a few articles specifically about Devonte and myself. And it has a link to a donation fund for Devonte's legal fees. As well as links to a few zines that I've written since I've been out.
Melinda: Great. Yeah, and there has been a good amount of press coverage of your case.
Cyrus: Yes, that's true.
Melinda: So we'll share all those links. Absolutely. When we release the episode. So, I kind of want to, you know, end with what's next for you? What are your plans?
Cyrus: Now that my case is resolved and I can get my immigration situation and all that taken care of, I plan on getting back into school and going to law school.
Melinda: Awesome.
Cyrus: In the meantime, while I'm going through the school process, I'm gonna try to reestablish some old business ideas and plans that I had and worked on while I was incarcerated. And also while I was incarcerated, I wrote three movies and…
Melinda: You did?
Cyrus: Yeah, and I created a whole cartoon and wrote three seasons and drew like a hundred characters. So I'm going to try to pitch those things and try to see if I can make a little profit off of those two.
Melinda: Awesome. And you know, it seems to me everything that you've learned about the system, everything you've experienced firsthand, is going to make you an incredibly powerful advocate for criminal justice reform. You're already doing it, and I'm really excited to see where you go with all this, you know, on the legal side and the creative side.
Cyrus: Yeah.
Melinda: Yeah. I know it's not easy But I so appreciate your being here today and being willing to share your story and your experience. And, you know, it really just hits home to me kind of like Margaret Mead said, what a concerned group of citizens can do to change the world. And I think that everything that you're doing will have impact, for so many other people who may not have the wherewithal, or the learning, or the understanding to advocate for themselves in the way that you have. So, I really commend you.
Cyrus: Thank you. Yeah.
Melinda: Thanks for being here.
Cyrus: Yeah, glad to be here.
Melinda: To me, Cyrus’ story demonstrates the power of creativity as a foundation of resilience, even when the deck is overwhelmingly stacked against you. Cyrus not only educated himself in the legal system, he learned to advocate for himself while in jail. He brought public attention to his situation. He also embraced the power of community to advocate for others and foster positive changes to the system. He's even addressed the Texas Legislature regarding his own experience and the problems with the criminal justice system, an incredibly brave act given what he's been through.
Our creativity Pro Tip for today takes inspiration from Cyrus's efforts to speak up and speak out against injustice. Individually and collectively, we all have the power to advocate for ourselves and what we believe is right, to make a positive difference in the world, even when we may doubt ourselves or our potential impact.
When I spoke publicly after Cyrus's trial, about my experience as a juror and about my article in the Texas Observer, people came up to me afterwards warning me about my personal safety in the face of speaking out. There's a lot of fear in the world. And a lot of complex problems to address. But as I've personally learned and witnessed, each of us can and do make a difference. So how can you use your creativity to speak up about what you believe in, despite the fears you may feel, that brings out the best of your voice and expression?
Thanks again to Cyrus Gray for the conversation. We'll provide links in the show notes for more information about his story, press coverage of his case, and how you can get involved in his ongoing efforts to help his friend Devonte Amerson and others dealing with lengthy pre-trial detention and a system that's stacked against them.
At Syncreate, we're here to support your creative endeavors. If you have an idea and you're interested in our help, please reach out to us about one-on-one coaching, or join our Syncreate Six-Month Coaching Group starting in April of 2024. We'll be guiding you through our Syncreate process to help bring a creative project to life. You can learn more at syncreate.org.
This episode was produced by Christian Haigis with assistance by Mike Osborne. Follow Syncreate on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, and LinkedIn, where you can also find out more about all we do at Syncreate. Thanks for listening, and see you next time.
